Church Leadership Conversations

  • Advice on applying for a pastoral position

    I received an email from a man in his 40's who is interested in a pastoral position at a church of 85 attendance.  He has done a lot of leadership in Christian organizations but hasn't been a pastor.  Here is my quick response to him this morning.  I did not post his letter to me but in my response I work through the main questions he asked me: (1) approaching the process, (2) salary, and (3) church growth.  He wanted me to post my response in case it might help others.

    Dear __________,

    First of all, I would not share with the congregational search
    committee about the setbacks or problems in the churches and parachurch organizations you served
    unless you are talking about how you positively addressed the
    situation.  Emphasize ways you contributed that turned out well.  "I
    noticed this . . . this problem came up . . . and this how I addressed
    it."  That shows them how you would address problems.  If you talk
    about "the whole story" about the decline of the organizations you were
    involved in, that will be discouraging for all and is unnecessary.  I
    just don't think the details of all those situations matter to the
    congregation and I think they unnecessarily muddy the waters as this
    church is different from those past organizations.  I have attached two
    resumes (one of me and one of my wife) we did a while back.  It
    demonstrates a bit of how we highlight things we accomplished.  You
    also want to do this in interviews.  You want to focus on positive
    accomplishments.  When they ask you a question, say, "Well here is how
    I addressed something like that in the past . . . " 

    Most churches are looking for a good preacher and someone with
    integrity.  Perhaps you have a tape of a good sermon you've preached or
    you can do a great one when they ask you to come interview
    ("candidate"). 

    Hopefully you also have a lot of people in your past
    who can speak to your integrity, honesty, hard work, and
    compassion–usually three good references–ideally people who were
    colleagues or in official positions in the church or parachurch
    organizations you were involved in but you can have someone who was a
    volunteer leader. 

    They want to know that you are a good listener and care about
    people (like elderly people) and can speak to them with interest,
    laugh, ask questions and empathize.       

    My How to Search for a Christian Ministry Job which I wrote for graduating Christian ministry majors in 2006 might also be helpful as far as the job search.  

    I think the Presbyterians are right in talking about the
    pastor hearing a call to the church (feeling like it is a good fit) and
    the congregation hearing a call to the pastor (this is the right person
    God has for us now).  The process should be thought of as "discerning
    the call"–not "hiring" and "finding a job."  This is your prayer,
    "God, help this to be a good match for both the congregation and our
    family." 

    Second, on salary, sometimes pastors salaries are thought to be
    similar to teacher's salaries in the area.  Perhaps that is a place to
    start.  There are a few surveys out there like the LifeWay Compensation Study: 2008 Southern Baptist Convention Compensation Study.  I don't think you shared what state you are in but I did a calculation for Senior Pastors in Missiouri (a good swing state!) attendance 75-99.  Average compensation: $33,856.  Average pay package: $41,232. 

    Do not mention salary until the very end when they have offered you
    the job and present to you what their offer is.  Of course, don't say
    "yes" until you have heard what the package is.  My hope is that with
    home prices as high as you mention, they will pay you ok.  Churches
    will want to make sure that they are paying you a fair salary.  My bet
    is that it will be in the ballpark of these averages mentioned above. 
    You should be thrilled if they are 10K higher.  If they are lower, you
    are welcome to say, given my three kids and the cost of living in this
    area, and what is typically paid to pastors of other low-paying
    denominations like the Southern Baptist Convention in this state, I was
    thinking $__________.  If they like you, they won't let you go over a
    difference of 5-8K; they will cough up the money.  But if you mention it
    early, they will think you are all about money and no one likes that. 

    Third and last, as far as vision-casting and church growth, I would be slow about
    that as I mention in the my post you read: 8 pieces of advice for a new pastor.  Your main jobs will be adequately
    preaching and leading worship and getting to know everyone's name and
    the stories of the congregation in the past.  Eventually you will be
    able to identify the key leaders in the congregation (perhaps 15) and
    have casual and then gradually more focused conversations about focus
    and direction.  In general though you should not expect much major
    change for 5 years!  If you are doing great preaching, you will be able
    to stay around 75-85 attendance and at least pay to heat the building, a 15 hours
    per week church secretary, 10 hours of janitorial service, and your
    salary.  I like David Hansen's book The Art of Pastoring for encouragement about small congregations and getting by.       

    May the Lord strengthen and guide you as you seek to serve the church. 

    Grace and peace,

    andy


    Andy Rowell
    Th.D. Student
    Duke Divinity School
    Durham, North Carolina
    Blog: www.andyrowell.net

  • Ryan on Jericho Story

    We have been reenacting Joshua 6. 
    "Joshua fought the battle of Jericho, Jericho, Jericho . . .
    and the walls came tumbling down." 

    Ryan afterward explaining more about the story,
    "At the gate, there were these security people and there were people going out of the gate on the sidewalk . . . some animals wanted to take a break."  I was just enjoying his phrases that rarely are included in most Bible stories. 

    He was also saying earlier this week, "Just now . . ." this happened and "in the nick of time."  He is also saying "Oh my" which he gets from his father.  The poor kid is also trying to learn his past tenses these days, "I bringed this . . . I singed that."  It is not easy learning English. 

    Tonight at dinner, I was talking theology and church with Amy and Ryan yelled, "WHEN I WOKE UP FROM MY NAP, I PLAYED WITH SOMETHING!" meaning, "Can I get into this conversation, please?!"

    Ryan is making up random letters and saying them in order to get back at his parents who spell things so he doesn't know what we are talking about. 

    Jacob is doing high fives.  (Don't get him started; he won't stop).  

    Jacob also clocks his older brother with rather large toys.  Ryan is aware of it and keeps his distance when Jacob is waving anything. 

    Jacob also plays peek-a-boo where he cranes his head as far as he can away from you while we say, "Where's Jacob?" 

    He is also shaking his head furiously for "No." 

    He is also pointing at the moon, at trees, at everything. 

    He knows how to communicate–trying to put on his shoes to show he wants to go outside, putting his leg up on the bathtub to show us he wants to get in. 

    He is also doing good hugs and cuddles now where he buries his head in your chest and squeezes you. 

    He also does some sort of worm dance.