Church Leadership Conversations

  • Gibbs and Bolger’s Emerging Churches Focuses Almost Exclusively On Small House Churches

    Gibbs, Eddie and Ryan K. Bolger. Emerging Churches: Creating Christian Community in Postmodern Cultures. Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2005.

    Disclaimer: I liked the book and I recommend that everyone read it. It articulates the ideals of the Emerging Church movement very well and gives practical examples of each ideal. Bravo! Now for the critique . . . which perhaps is no surprise considering the fuzzy nature of the movement . . . I didn’t like how they limited the definition of "Emerging Churches."

    It seems almost everyone agrees that Gibbs and Bolger have written the most responsible, comprehensive and current portrait of the Emerging Church movement. Their methodology seemed sound. They interviewed 50 emerging church leaders and tried to collate those responses into a report from the frontlines. I thoroughly appreciated the work and plan on writing more about its positive points. But today I have a warning for the reader: Gibbs and Bolger basically just focus on small house churches. Though there are large church pastors, traditional church pastors, youth pastors, and Next-Gen pastors “in the conversation” at any emergent conference or emerging church website, you will not hear from them in this book.

    Gibbs and Bolger have made the crucial decision to exclude Gen-X megachurches and Gen-X/young adult services from their portrait of the emerging church. They admit that these forms of church are often what people think of when they use the term emerging churches. But apparently Gibbs and Bolger have decided to try to change that. They write, “Popularly, the term emerging church has been applied to high-profile, youth-oriented congregations that have gained attention on account of their rapid numerical growth; their ability to attract (or retain) twentysomethings; their contemporary worship, which draws from popular musical styles; and their ability to promote themselves to the Christian subculture through websites and by word of mouth” (41). Though most people consider these youthful expressions of church part of the emerging church movement, Gibbs and Bolger dismiss these expressions as hopelessly “modern.” They write, “Taking postmodernity seriously requires that all church practices come into question. In contrast, Gen-X churches involve simply changes in strategy from what came before (e.g., adding stories, video, raw music, vulnerable preaching, art, and candles). However, to be missional is to go way beyond strategy. It is to look for church practices that can be embodied within a particular culture. In other words, theologies given birth within modernity will not transfer to postmodern cultures” (34). I think they are wrong to dismiss the possibility that Gen-X churches are missional. (Popularized by Darrell Guder’s The Missional Church, this term simply means a fresh application of the techniques of missiology to Western culture. There is no reason only church plants or house churches can do this. In fact, the book is written by Guder who is a PCUSA person with the intention to shake up the mainline churches especially). They are also naïve to assume that “emerging churches” can possibly remove themselves from the influence of modernity. Emerging churches will still likely use modern inventions such as printed Bibles, automobiles, public transit, computers, phones, etc.

    Because of their definition, it seemed to me that the description by Gibbs and Bolger of “emerging churches” sounds a lot like “house churches” to me. A small group of 10-100 people come together, discuss some Scripture, care for one another, stress participation in worship, eat a meal together, share leadership, do good to those in the community, and do friendship evangelism. They write, “When emerging churches meet in a large congregational setting, they widen their community ties and build on the intimacy developed in their small groups. These networks of small groups may gather together on a monthly basis. However, the large group meeting is of secondary importance” (112). There are a lot of church leaders which are not specifically house church-oriented that have been highly involved in discussing how to minister to postmoderns.

    It seems to me most of the leaders of the emerging church they interviewed would consider the Gen-X church leaders part of the “emerging church conversation.” Listen to these definitions.

    a. Jonny Baker: “Church, as we have inherited it, is no longer working for vast groups of people. The world has changed so much. So I think the term emerging church is nothing more than a way of expressing that we need new forms of church that relate to culture” (41).

    b. Ben Edson: “So emerging church for me is quite simply a church that
    is rooted in the emerging context and is exploring worship, mission, and
    community within that context” (41-42).

    c. Karen Ward: what is “coming to the surface that is new, unformed,
    still happening, emerging” (42).

    d. Mark Scandrette: “The emerging church is a quest for a more
    integrated and whole life of faith. There is a bit of theological
    questioning going on, focusing more on kingdom theology, the inner life,
    friendship/community, justice, earth keeping, inclusivity, and inspirational
    leadership. In addition, the arts are in a renaissance, as are the
    classical spiritual disciplines. Overall, it is a quest for a holistic
    spirituality” (42).

    e. Doug Pagitt: “He sees three types of responses to the current
    context: (1) a return to the Reformation (e.g., Mars Hill in Seattle); (2) deep
    systemic changes, but Christianity and the church are still in the center and
    theological changes are not needed (e.g., University Baptist in Waco and Mosaic
    in Los Angeles); and (3) seeing the church as not necessarily the center of
    God’s intentions. God is working in the world, and the church has the
    option to join God or not. The third approach focuses more on the kingdom
    than on the church, and it reflects the perspective of Solomon’s Porch in
    Minneapolis and characterizes what Pagitt would classify as emerging”
    (42).

    Gibbs and Bolger essentially decide to accept Pagitt’s most exclusive third approach as their working definition and ignore the more broader definitions articulated by Baker, Edson, Ward and Scandrette. (It should also be said that the third approach is not articulated well in the quote above. How is the church not the center of God’s intentions? I think what they are trying to say is that these churches have a fresh awareness of the importance of a kingdom perspective but this is overstated and unclear in the quote).

    I understand that Gibbs and Bolger could not profile everyone who is part of the emerging church conversation. They have to draw the line somewhere. So they have decided to argue that the emerging church is very different from other expressions of church. But it seems to me their definition ends up excluding some of the leading voices in the movement: Brian McLaren, Chris Seay, Rob Bell, Mark Driscoll, and Erwin McManus. McLaren, indisputably one of the leaders of the movement, is rarely quoted in the book and his church is never mentioned as an example of an emerging church. Rob Bell, who is not explicitly part of the movement but was featured in the Christianity Today article by Andy Crouch on the emerging church and is extremely influential among young church leaders, is never mentioned. Chris Seay, who invited Tony Jones (coordinator of Emergent) to speak at the anniversary of his church, is dismissed. The Younger Evangelicals by Robert Webber, The Church on the Other Side by Brian McLaren, and The Emerging Church by Dan Kimball have other weaknesses but they do not exclude these other voices. They include the fact that many pastors are trying to help traditional, seeker and modern churches become more adept at ministering in a postmodern context. For Gibbs and Bolger, if you haven’t planted it from scratch, then it doesn’t count as an “emerging church.” I would say there is a range of emerging churches who are involved in the conversation. I’m interested in what all of them have to say. However, Gibbs and Bolger limit themselves to just numbers 8-9.

    1. Mosaic (Erwin McManus)
    2. Mars Hill Church (Mark Driscoll)
    3. Traditional churches that are being led by young pastors who are trying to adapt them to reach a postmodern culture
    4. Gen-X/young adult services
    5. Gen-X Churches
    6. Mars Hill Bible Church (Rob Bell)
    7. Cedar Ridge Community Church (Brian McLaren)
    8. Solomon’s Porch (Doug Pagitt)
    9. House churches / post-modern church plants

    To be fair, Gibbs and Bolger intend to include the overhaul of traditional churches and also large churches in their analysis. They write, “Most of these emerging churches are new, while others represent the rejuvenation of long-standing congregations and ancient traditions. Some of these frontline churches are large, the biggest attracting crowds of several hundreds or even thousands, but the majority are small, consisting of independent groups of less than thirty or clusters of house groups totally less than one hundred” (29). But in the end I had difficulty identifying any churches that have “thousands” in attendance or are the result of a traditional church being adapted. They also try to distinguish these emergent churches from “house churches” (60). “Unlike the stereotypical house church, emerging churches do not exist in isolation but establish networks for mutual support and encouragement” (113). Still I think the churches they describe are very similar to house churches. I think it would have been more fruitful to pick out how all sorts of churches are trying to reach postmoderns.

  • My Yahoo LAUNCHcast Radio Station and Why I Listen to Lectures and Sermon Audio

    You can listen to my LAUNCHcast Station here

    It plays

    • Christian artists like Jennifer Knapp and Chris Rice
    • Worship artists like Chris Tomlin, Vicky Beeching, David Crowder Band, Shane & Shane, and Delirious?
    • Christian artists who sing "secular music" like U2, Lifehouse, Bob Dylan, Bruce Cockburn, and Johnny Cash.
    • Non-Christian artists like Toad the Wet Sprocket, Matchbox Twenty, Gin Blossoms, Indigo Girls, Alanis Morissette, and Pearl Jam who I like because of their thoughtful words and/or great melodies.

    Note:

    I have to turn off ("disable") my Norton Internet Security pop-up blocker to play the station.

    Disclaimer:

    I freely admit I am not a very artistic, musically-astute listener. I last played an instrument when I played tuba in 8th grade. I don’t prioritize buying CD’s or buying concert tickets. The height of my musical appreciation was listening to lots of top 40 radio from 1986-1994 (jr-high and high school).

    My listening habits:

    I can listen to all the LAUNCHcast radio stations commercial-free because I have SBC DSL high-speed internet at home. Find the LAUNCHcast station guide here for lots of stations like Contemporary Christian Station or the Praise and Worship Station which you can listen to with commercials.

    I have a cord from my laptop (from the headphone jack) to my stereo so I can listen to it through my stereo speakers.

    At work, I can’t get LAUNCHcast to work because of the settings at the school so I sometimes listen to Christian radio at K-Love here.

    Often times in the morning, I listen to NPR (National Public Radio). I listen to their Hourly Newscast 5-minute news summary, the NPR Program Stream or stories that look interesting. I have blogged about this before here and here and here.

    Still, I most often am found listening to sermons and lectures online. My post here gives a great list of Sermons and Lectures online. This may be my most valuable post.

    I have written posts after listening to a number of the sermons and lectures. (See here about William Lane Craig and here about John Perkins and Erwin McManus and here about Wangerin, McLaren, Buechner, Capon, Foster, Groome and here on John MacArthur).

    I listen to stuff on the internet a lot because:

    1. We don’t have TV but we can watch DVDs and videos.
    2. I often prepare to teach class at home and watch 10-month year-old son Ryan.
    3. I do the laundry and cleaning around the house.

    The discipline of study vs. the discipline of silence

    Sometimes I have felt guilty for not practicing the presence of God like Brother Lawrence. I have felt bad for not practicing the discipline of silence. In chapter 7 of Celebration of Discipline, Richard Foster writes: "Our fear of being alone drives us to noise and crowds . . . We buy radios that strap to our wrists or fit over our ears so that, if no one else is around, at least we are not condemned to silence." I take his prophetic warning seriously. There is a place for silence in my life and surely needs to be cultivated more.

    But I think there is also a place for thinking about "whatever" is worth thinking about (Philippians 4:8). (I just realized that this is equivalent to Richard Foster’s "discipline of study" (ch. 5 of Celebration of Discipline) and he in fact quotes Philippians 4:8). I hope that I can turn what I am listening to into prayer. "Lord, help me to sort through what I am hearing and use it to serve you better."

    Another option is to listen to Scripture read aloud. See Biblegateway’s Audio here or listen to the New Testament in Greek here like NT Wright used to do. See my post about him here.

  • How to Search for a Christian Ministry Job

    This is a letter that I wrote to senior Christian Educational Ministries majors and minors at Taylor University but I think it is applicable to almost anyone searching for a Christian ministry position.

    Dear Senior Christian Educational Ministries Capstone Folks and some other CE Senior Minors in my classes,

    I have been talking with a number of you and told you that I would email you a list of job-search websites. I have listed them at the bottom of this email. I think ChurchStaffing.com, Willow Creek Association’s Exchange, and Youth Specialties’s Job Bank are the most important. Here is what they are useful for: they give you an idea of the kind of positions that are out there.

    Why Ministry Job Search Websites are Mostly Useless:

    But I have got to tell you: hardly anyone gets a job by getting a position listed on an internet job site. I can hardly think of anyone that has actually gotten a position that way. (I have married two couples who met on the internet. I think that it is more likely to find a spouse than a job by searching on the internet). Before JR Kerr was hired, the teaching pastor position at North Way was listed for a long time at ChurchStaffing.com . . . but that is not how JR got the job. Someone on staff at North Way had met him and invited him to come down and meet with the senior pastor and just talk and see if there might be a fit . . . and there was.

    So I have written more below about a better way to search for a ministry position.

    How employers actually look for people to hire:

    As Richard Bolles says in What Color is Your Parachute, most employers search for people in the following way. (I’m paraphrasing from memory here. Bolles actually gives the statistics). First, people hiring look at the people who are already part of the organization and see if any of them could fill the position. In the church, they look at volunteers from the church or someone who is working in another position in the church who might be reassigned. Second, they think of other people they know (in other churches, parachurch organizations, friends, relatives, acquaintances, etc.) Third, they ask trusted friends if they know of anyone who would be good. Fourth, they will post the position internally. They will post the position description in the bulletin and maybe on their website. Fifth, they will post the position opening more broadly. They may post it on Youth Specialties, ChurchStaffing.com, Willow Creek Association, a denominational site, Taylor’s Career Development office, a local Christian newspaper or email Taylor CE profs. Sixth (and almost never for ministry ads), they may post the position in the newspaper want-ads.

    How to find out about good positions:

    The point is that if you wait for positions to be posted publicly on the internet or in the newspaper, a lot of the good ones will be already gone! But if you call someone in the church leadership and tell them about what you are interested in and ask them if they can give you any advice, you may be one of the first people who gets considered. People cannot resist being asked for advice. We all feel honored to give advice! The person you ask may have just been to a pastor’s prayer meeting and hear that First Baptist down the street is looking for a Youth Pastor. Pray for God to be moving ahead of your phone call or email!

    So, I would encourage you to contact churches and especially people that you respect and like. Probably if you like them, you will probably like the ministry positions they know about. If they are megachurch, they will know of other megachurch positions. If they are emerging church, they will know of other emerging positions. If they are a great youth pastor, they will know the other great youth pastors in the area. Just tell them what you are looking for and ask them if they have any advice for you and ask them if there is anyone else they recommend talking to.

    Better than talking on the phone with them is meeting with them in person. They will see how charming you are and seeing you in person will inspire them to really think how they can help you! Email them or phone them and say this: "From all I hear about you, I feel like I could really learn a lot from you. Is there any way I could drive to where you work and take you out to lunch or to Starbucks someday and hear about what it is like to do ministry to youth in the inner-city? I think that is what I’m interested in and I would love to just get any advice you can give me. I’m a senior so I’m thinking about what I want to do next. If that’s not possible to meet with you, is there a good time I could call you?"

    Tell your relatives, friends in the area you are interested in, your home church pastor, pastor at Taylor, cousins, other students . . . everyone and let them know what you are looking for. "I’m interested in doing college ministry in a church, do you know of any positions open like that? Or do you know any really cool people that do college ministry in a church who I could ask for advice?" This will help you get leads and in the process you will learn what you are really interested in and what you’re not interested in. For example, Cousin Billy will tell you he has a college ministry position open at his church in Arizona and after some soul-searching you may realize that Arizona is too far away from your jr-at-Taylor-fiance.

    I think in the end, if you work hard like this, you will probably get a few options to choose from and you will probably make a better decision rather than just taking the first job that comes along.

    The most important thing to look for:

    I really think the most important thing is for you to be under an immediate supervisor who you admire and have respect for their ministry skills. If you spend time with them and realize that they don’t seem to know what they are doing, are a terrible speaker, are not very relational, etc. but you are still tempted to go there because the position looks cool, I would think twice before going there. You want to think: "This is really someone I could learn from." Not that they are necessarily going to be your special mentor / guru / father figure, but for most people your immediate supervisor makes the difference between ministry being miserable or a joy. If you have a supervisor who believes in you and is wise in ministry, you can get through the learning curves and stresses of ministry.

    Know what you are looking for but also keep an open mind:

    It is good to try to articulate what you are really interested in – for example, leading worship and working with sr. high students, etc. If you just say, "I’m looking for a job" they won’t remember you when a youth pastor / worship leader position comes up. But if you tell them specificallly what you are interested in, they will remember you! But also be a little open-minded and flexible about what you might enjoy doing. My wife Amy thought she wanted to do women’s ministry but ended up loving children’s ministry because essentially she ended up encouraging, praying for, counseling, nurturing, equipping and empowering volunteers – much like she had hoped to do in women’s ministry.

    How to find out what you are interested in:

    If you are not sure what you want to do, ask permission to shadow someone for a day or most of a day. I give you permission to skip a day of classes to do it (or do it on a Sunday)! Again, the person you shadow will get to know you a bit and will probably be able to think of some other leads for you to check out. After that day, you will probably be able to say: I totally want to do do what that guy does. Or, I think I’d like to shadow someone from children’s ministry and see if I like that a bit better.

    Don’t get stereotyped as a secretary:

    I would not encourage you to take an "administrative assistant" position. Some of you are good at administration and like it but that doesn’t mean you need "administration" in your title. You will do administration in every position (answer email, return calls, organize events, etc.) but a secretary position means that you need to sit at your desk and answer the phone no matter what. For example, if someone in the youth group comes in to your office crying, you want to be able to spend time with them and care for them. If you are in a secretarial position, that is not your job. They will be ok with it once but will be unhappy if that is a pattern. If you are in a ministry position, you will be expected to care for people! Make sure you take a ministry position because you will learn more and you are trained for that! I had a Taylor CE grad friend who took a youth pastor secretary position and the people always looked at her that way even though she could have done a better job than the youth pastor!

    Accepting the job:

    When you are "candidating" (visiting a church and talking to the church about working there) and negotiating a contract, feel free to talk to me or Phil Collins or another ministry person you respect from another church, to get advice. I think it is good for you to be paid something – hopefully enough to live on (especially if they are asking you to work full-time). Volunteering at a ministry and working a "regular job" elsewhere is ok but you will get a lot more attention and responsibility if the church is paying you and I think you will learn more this way. But I don’t think you need to be paid big bucks in your first position. Learn now, earn later.

    Let me know if you have more questions.

    May the Lord guide each of you into the right position where you can learn, grow spiritually, be fulfilled, work hard and make a difference.

    andy

    A couple of sites for looking up sample salaries:

    • ELCA Youth Ministry Network Salary Survey – You need to get a free login.
    • 2006 Leadership Network Salary and Economic Outlook Report – Again you have to get a free login.  This is larger churches so the salaries tend to be higher. 
    • You can also buy a book which gives you information about this.  The 2007 Compensation Handbook for Church Staff It is $29.95 or you can download just the section you are interested in for $9.95.
    • Many denominations post salary guidelines.  If you find more, list them in the comments. 

    Some Ministry Job Search Websites

    Christiancareercenter.com
    christian-careers.com
    ChristianJobs.com
    Christianitytoday.com
    Churchjobs.net
    Churchjobsonline.com
    ChurchStaffing.com
    Kingdomcareers.com
    ministryjobs.com
    ministrysearch.com
    pastorsearch.net

    Bethel Seminary Placement Index
    Fuller Theological Seminary – Career Services
    Gordon Conwell’s MinistryList.com

    American Baptist Home Mission American Baptist Personnel
    Evangelical Covenant Church Seeking Staff
    Evangelical Presybyterian Church Opportunity List
    Presbyterian Church USA Opportunity List
    Willow Creek Association — The Exchange
    Willow Creek Community Church Employment Opportunities

    Youth Specialties Job Bank
    YouthPastor.com