Andy Rowell

Category: Megachurches

  • Video Venues and the Future Shrinking of the Megachurch

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    On Leadership Journal’s Out of Ur blog, they are having a discussion about video venues based on the post by Shane Hipps entitled "Video Venues and the Papacy of Celebrity: Why changing the methods always changes the message." What is a video venue?

    The best way to describe a video venue is to give you an example.

    Willow Creek McHenry County is located more than 30 minutes from Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, IL. McHenry County campus pastor, Wayne Alguire, attends the Saturday night service at the main campus. Afterward, he is given a DVD of the sermon. On Sunday morning, he plays that DVD during the preaching portion of the service in McHenry country. "What," you ask, "they do not have live person preaching?" No, they don’t. They have "live" worship and announcements but not preaching. On occasion, there may be an exception but in general this is the basic idea. Wayne Alguire does not have to prepare a sermon each week and is thus freed to care for people. The congregation does not have to drive all the way to the main campus in South Barrington. They can get amazing preaching in their own backyard. That is the basic idea of video venues.

    Here are a few of my thoughts (pro and con) about this approach.

    PRO:

    I like the idea that megachurches are in some ways getting smaller and homier through this approach. In other words, rather than driving from McHenry Country to Willow Creek and not seeing anyone you recognize, you can hear Bill Hybels on video at the Wheaton campus with a smaller group who you will begin to get to know.

    I also dislike bad preaching. Bill Hybels says in his preaching/teaching workshop something like, “If you’re not good at teaching/preaching, save your listeners, and go do something else.” I’d choose a good sermon on video over terrible sermons in person any day.

    It is worth noting that the microphone changed church culture more than video. Before that, we were limited by the strength of the preacher’s voice, the acoustics of the room, and the youth of the audience’s ears. No wonder there weren’t many megachurches.

    CON:

    Due to overemphasis on the Eucharist/communion in the Roman Catholic Church, the Reformers put more emphasis on the sermon. I think we have swung the other direction and put too much emphasis on the sermon to the detriment of congregational life. The logical extension of the crucial nature of “good preaching” is to get it "efficiently" by playing sermons on video.

    The logical end of the VV "efficiency" argument is to pick two preachers and just have everyone listen to them. How about my favorites Rob Bell and John Ortberg as the two?

    I think there is already too much borrowing and imitating in evangelicalism. It is remarkable how much of what thousands of churches do is rooted in the actions and programs of five influential churches.  (Later note August 1, 2007: These rankings by The Church Report are probably not legitimate).
    What is really scary about that exaggerated scenario is that few of us would be studying our Bibles as studiously if we didn’t have to preach! That is human nature, right? There is something about the local pastor studying and applying the Scripture to a specific context.

    The Future of the Video Venue:

    I don’t think we need to worry about everyone going to the video venue approach. Some people will appreciate it and the approach will continue to grow through the megachurches. Others though will want a live preacher that they can interact with.

    Interestingly, this approach may be the sign of the waning of the megachurch movement. People don’t want to drive 40 minutes to go to a church. They want to get to know people who live in their community. I bet that Willow Creek will never build a bigger auditorium than the one it opened two years ago. Church planters, and other advocates of the power of the small church, should feel vindicated that even the megachurch is noticing that bigger is not necessarily better. There is power in local churches who contextualize themselves to a community.

    Calvin College professor, Quentin J. Schultze, reflects well on these issues in: High-Tech Worship?: Using Presentational Technologies Wisely. Baker, 2004.

    If you are interested in this topic, you might be interested in listening to an audio presentation on this topic from Leadership Network at
    http://www.leadnet.org/Resources_AV.asp

    Here is the description:
    Seacoast Church (www.seacoast.org) currently has 9 different campuses, and it continues to pray and plan toward the launch of more campuses. The primary teaching comes from our Mt. Pleasant campus by videocast. This model prompts questions about whether a teaching pastor in one city can effectively pastor people hundreds of miles away. The answer is no, and in the accompanying podcast lead pastor Greg Surratt explains Seacoast’s approach and rationale.

    Some photos of Saddleback’s Video Venues are here.

    There is a video venue starter kit from North Coast Church in San Diego here.

  • Andy Stanley Says There is No Such Thing as Distinctively Spiritual Leadership

    Here are my comments on the article: Is Ministry Leadership Different? Andy Stanley and Jim Collins in an unexpected point-counterpoint by Eric Reed at Leadership Journal’s Out of Ur blog:

    Andy Stanley, pastor of the third most influential church in the nation with more than 18,000 in attendance, is right in urging pastors to practice competent leadership regardless of its source. He says: “I grew up in a culture where everything was overly spiritualized . . . A principle is a principle, and God created all the principles.” He is right in saying that too often churches have permitted abuse, waste, and ineptitude in the name of forgiveness, family, and niceness. He is also right in declaring it makes sense to learn from others. We should be reexamining Scripture for wisdom as well as sifting through leadership and business management books for wise insight. (See my list of recommended business management books that are helpful for pastors here).

    But Christian leaders are different from other leaders because of their Christian character (as Andy tacitly indicates in his words about the importance of prayer, counsel, and integrity when he speaks to church leaders). If leaders are not formed by Scripture, prayer and counsel [Eugene Peterson calls these the three angles in his book Working the Angles)], their vision and leadership will ultimately be shallow and self-serving. So I think Andy overstates the case when he says “There’s nothing distinctly spiritual [about the kind of leadership I do].” There is such a thing as spiritual (pleasing-to-the-Holy-Spirit) leadership that is often different from secular business leadership. Spiritual formation will actually change the way we do leadership. Some practices which would violate Scripture cannot be used even to meet seemingly good goals. In other words, Scripture restrains the use of some means. The ends do not always justify the means.

    Eric Reed is right in pointing out that many young people are attracted to Andy Stanley but that he does not fit with the “emerging” leader profile which is also popular among young people. Reed writes:

    “Stanley is becoming the model for the next generation of large church pastors [note Reed’s adjective large] . . . Because Andy connects well with younger leaders, who in general are bent more toward spiritual formation than church growth . . . I thought I’d hear something that backed up the pendulum swing we have heard prominent emerging leaders identify–that younger leaders don’t buy all the church growth stuff, that the models that built megachurches worked for boomers, but for Gen-X and younger? Fuggidaboudit.”

    Many young suburban white young adults are attracted to Andy Stanley. He is what they want to be: attractive, making-a-difference, young, confident, and articulate with a gorgeous facility and a talented staff. But Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger describe in Emerging Churches a different set of young people who don’t want to copy management principles or accept megachurch assumptions. They want to emulate Jesus’ practices – wandering around talking to people, without a building, praying, telling stories, and helping people. Seeker churches like Stanley’s, on the other hand, want people to “meet Jesus” through getting them through whatever means to sit in the seats of their church.

    My comments on the Gibbs and Bolger book Emerging Churches are here.

    Most of the college students in my classes at Taylor University are attracted to both Andy Stanley and the Emerging church conversation. They are attracted to young charismatic leaders regardless of their ministry approach. Rob Bell and Erwin McManus are probably the two most popular among them since they have all the things Andy Stanley has (attractive, making-a-difference, young, confident, and articulate with a large facility and a talented staff) but also embrace some of aspects of the emerging churches: art, attitude, informality, stories, urban culture, and justice.

    See my list of sermon audio links to listen to Stanley, Bell and McManus here.

    For a scholarly presentation of how the apostle Paul dealt with secular ideas of leadership when they began to appear in Corinth, listen to New Testament scholar Bruce Winter‘s lecture "Secularization of First Century Christian Leadership – Inroads of Secular Models." Here is the synopsis.

    Bruce Winter questions the word "leader" as the name we use when talking about church ministers. He says Paul intentionally does not use the Greek word for leader to describe the ministers in the early church. Winter also says Paul intentionally rejected the braggart, money-making, attractive orator image that was readily apparent in the culture at the time.

    This must cause all of us to pause as we think of the kind of Christian leaders that are so often held up as "making a difference" in our culture. Most often they get famous as successful pastors because they are great speakers and attractive. Perhaps this is always the way to fame and there is no preventing it. But that does not mean we need to try to emulate the famous (as is so natural).

    Jeffrey Fox lays out "the rules to rise to the top of any organization" in How to Become CEO. Here are a few out of the 75.

    • Keep Physically Fit
    • Dress for a Dance
    • Be Visible
    • Learn to Speak and Write in Plain English
    • Say Things to Make People Feel Good
    • Look Sharp and Be Sharp
    • The Concept Doesn’t Have to Be Perfect But the Execution of It Does

    I am quite sure that Fox is right that if we applied these we could rise to the top of any organization including the church. The Corinthians would have sent Paul the book. "Work on your appearance, Paul. Don’t do manual labor. Charge higher fees. Try to be a bit more polished."

    We could work on those things or instead we could learn to pray the Psalms.

    1 Sam 16:7. But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things human beings look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart" (TNIV).

    May God give us wisdom to do our tasks well – gathering wisdom wherever we may find it – from secular and Christian mentors and books. But may God also form us as people after his own heart so that we do the right tasks in the right way.

  • Strengths of the Purpose Driven Church and Sober Advice For Those Considering the Megachurch

    I first read The Purpose-Driven Church: Growth Without Compromising Your Message & Mission by Rick Warren soon after it came out in 1995. I am now teaching a Christian ministry course at Taylor University entitled "Program and Curriculum Development." I require my students to read the book because of how influential this book has been. I don't want them to be in the dark at a staff meeting or conference when people refer to it. Ten years after reading the book and being involved in pastoral leadership during that whole time, it has been interesting to read the book again. There are some definite strengths of the book. But I also have some cautions for my students about the megachurch as well.

    The huge strengths of The Purpose Driven Church

    Here are notes from my lecture about the strengths of the book: 

    Programming should be inspired by vision, moved by need and thoughtful about its approach.

    • Experiment. Warren admits that his strategy was mostly to just try things out! Emulate him in this way! p. 27-29 
    • Consistency. A family will not be healthy if it has 10 fathers but might be healthy with one. Consider committing to a place for the long haul. p. 31

    Programming should be done with purpose, balance and discipline.

    • Balance p. 49, 76, 122. Left to our own devices, we will do what we are most passionate about and neglect other aspects of the biblical mandate.
    • There is a time to pray and a time to take responsibility. p. 58 There is a time to put our heads together and try to solve a problem with the brains and abilities God has given us rather than just spiritualize problems.
    • Major on the majors. p. 89 If your church is majoring on something like a choir, which is pretty peripheral to God's purposes, think about majoring on something more important.
    • No program is meant to last forever. p. 89-90. If it has stopped being useful, nix the program.
    • Need a leader for every program. p. 90. Do not start a program without leadership.

    Programming should be done with awareness of reality

    • Levels of commitment will differ. p. 131-136. Program in light of the fact that you are ministering to people with different levels of commitment.
    • Pay attention to people. Yes, target people but realize that the kingdom of God is about more than one demographic. Warren targeted Saddleback Sam but admits God has led them to minister to many new targets. p. 160.

    Programming should be done with hospitality and excellence

    • Emphasize hospitality – welcoming people – over attractiveness though they are similar. Warren and Saddleback are very hospitable and we can learn from this. All churches think they are friendly but most are not in reality.
    • Pursue excellence but realize that the smaller the congregation, the less you will be able to do what the world would judge as excellent and that is ok. Recognize what you can do well (160) (for example, fellowship) and yet also strive to do the other purposes well as you can (worship, discipleship, evangelism, service).
    • The importance of outreach. p. 50 Most churches never reach any non-Christians and essentially serve the believer. Warren and friends remind us of the importance of reaching the lost. "The Church is the only society that exists for the benefit of those who are not its members" (William Temple).
    • Think like an unbeliever. p.189 Do not try to reach out by using Christian jargon like "Come hear the preaching of the inerrant Word of God."
    • Encourage people to find a place they can thrive in ministry. It is not about filling spots. p. 382 They will most likely need to experiment. I have taught the SHAPE ("spiritual gifts, heart, abilities, personalities, experiences) assessment course and the most important message is for people to jump in and try something. p. 387

    I critique Warren's approach in my posts
    A wider target: Deconstructing and redeploying the Seeker Sensitive Service planning of The Purpose Driven Church
    and
    Why pastors should be both goal-setting fanatics and cynics
    but also give some general words of caution below.


    Introduction to the Megachurch

    In the next sections, I do not focus specifically on Rick Warren's Saddleback Church or his The Purpose Driven Church but rather the megachurch in general.

    I received the following excellent statistical introduction to the megachurch from Bill Easum's article The Exponential Church: Learning From America’s Largest and Fastest-Growing Congregations

    "Twenty years ago American megachurches (more than 2,000 attendance) numbered just over two dozen. Today, they exceed more than 830, with more than 30 now exceeding 10,000 worshipper- launching a whole new category we call the "gigachurch." Since the late 1950s, the time it has taken for a church to grow large has been cut in half almost every decade. Ten of the churches started in 1990 reached attendances of 5,000 to 18,000 in one decade.What is driving this growth? The factors are many, including the migration of people to urban centers, word-of-mouth, sharpened leadership skills, churches becoming multigenerational and most recently, Web site access, TV exposure and megachurches teaching other churches through seminars, books and curriculum."

    I had never heard of the gigachurch and I don't think that terminology has taken off yet but it does make sense to me to differentiate the 30 churches over 10,000 attendance from the 800 over 2,000 but less than 10,000.

    Because the megachurch is big, strengths and weaknesses are exaggerated. It is great to study because it has systems for everything and they are often visible on the grand scale.

    Not all people thrive in a megachurch. Consider the following.

    If you grew up in a megachurch, you may intuitively understand who tends to fit there. But if you didn't, consider the following.

    • Because it is a large organization, it has to function as one. Thus business skills and larger-organization leadership skills are sought after.
    • Because the megachurch is always trying to make things better and this is visible to thousands of people on a weekly basis, it can tend to be a high pressure, result-oriented environment.
    • Because vision-casting is needed to rally volunteers and you are often known by your brief public speaking opportunities, outstanding public-speaking skills are an asset.
    • Because cutting edge technology is often used to keep track of lots of people and do ministry programming on a large-scale, technology skills are a sought after.
    • My friend writes: "Like those in big business, mega-church workers need to bring at least one towering strength to the enterprise. It's not a place for those who can do many things with average skill; it's a place for those who can do one or two things with tremendous skill. Excellence is of such high value that only over-achievers need apply. Smaller church workers can be generalists; most mega-church workers have to be specialists."
    • If you walk into a megachurch or visit a website of a megachurch and are attracted by the facility and professionalism, this may be your thing. If you have a bad taste in your mouth and feel like it seems fake, you should run the other direction because it probably isn't you.

    Crucial Issues to Consider While Working at a Megachurch:

    1. Think about what ministry "success" really means.

    It is customary (not just in the megachurch) to equate success with the A, B, C's (Attendance, Buildings, Cash) or you can also say it as the three B's (Bodies, Buildings, Budget). How can we measure quantitatively some things that are hard to quantify (discipleship, inner growth, godly character development, true worshipfulness)? Randy Frazee, author of The Connecting Church and formerly pastor of Pantego Bible Church and Willow Creek, has tried to to create an assessment tool:The
    Christian Life Profile Assessment Tool Training Guide: Discovering the
    Quality of Your Relationships with God and Others in 30 Key Areas     of 30 core competences which is a place to start.

    2. Take into account the location.

    Don't feel too proud of yourself if your church grows and you are in a geographical area that is booming economically and growing quickly. Don't be too discouraged regarding your church growth if you are in an area that is suffering economically. Megachurches often (but not always) occur in growing areas where there is a Target, Starbucks and new developments. In the megachurch game (a spoof on megachurch leadership) there are different levels of difficulty:

    "A suburban church plant (for those who want it easy or just starting out). Or pastor an inner-city, multi-ethnic 80 year old church with 50 members and $1 million mortgage debt (for those who really want a challenge)."

    3. Do not uncritically accept the idea that "quantity frequently indicates quality."

    Rick Warren writes, "Health produces growth . . . Quality produces quantity" (p.49, 51). Natural Church Development, another school of thought, concludes that of the major eight positive characteristics they look for in churches, only "Inspiring Worship" is most typically stronger in large churches.

    1. Empowering Leadership

    2. Gift-oriented Ministry

    3. Passionate Spirituality

    4. Functional Structures

    5. Inspiring Worship

    6. Holistic Small Groups

    7. Need-oriented Evangelism

    8. Loving Relationships

    This makes sense that people would assume that all the characteristics are stronger in a megachurch because when one visits a megachurch, people are often moved by the large-setting worship.

    4. Impact is not fame or joy.

    It is tempting to think that you are making a bigger impact if your ministry is famous. It is good to want to make a profound impact for God's kingdom. Go do it! You may not get noticed for it by Christianity Today but you may end up with a better family life, more joy, more friends, and more satisfaction than the famous Zondervan "____ Church" author. I'm told fame can be a pain–people who don't know you say all kinds of silly things about you and you don't know whether to respond or ignore it. Remember that "audience of One" concept (Luke 10:42).

    5. Consider making biblical reflection a priority.

    The megachurch is often characterized by a radical pragmatism that focuses on doing "whatever works." It can be very difficult with the weekly deadlines and pressure to thoughtfully consider the merits of a particular decision in light of biblical values. The thinking usually goes: "if it gets butts in seats, it is exposing people to the gospel, so it must be good." The megachurch may not appropriately value biblical reflection including the foundation of biblical reflection that is hopefully instilled in theological education / seminary.

    6. Consider carefully how to use resources.

    The megachurch often spends extraordinary amounts of money that might seem to be frivolous (the shuttle that brings people in from parking lot has video screens, etc.) Are there other ways that God might be calling the wealthy North American church to use its resources? Consider this question often.

    7. Understand biblical evangelism.

    The strength of the seeker megachurch is that it stresses outreach to the unchurched. I tell my students: "You're not allowed to throw stones at the seeker church unless you are committed to an equally intense evangelism approach (small groups that invite unchurched, Alpha program, 1-on-1 evangelism training, special seeker events, etc.)" However, the seeker church can also tend to get a bit over-focused on "getting souls into heaven" which may not reflect the totality of the message of Scripture.

    8. Consider discipleship in the seeker church.

    My friend writes: "When evangelism is the primary purpose of every Sunday's gathering…you're essentially doing 'crusade' ministry on a weekly basis. And if there's one thing that stadium crusades have taught us, it's that it's easier to draw a crowd than to disciple a crowd. As I recall, a study of the Billy Graham Association showed that about 4% of the respondents at their crusades ultimately wound up assimilated into a church. The mega-church might not be doing much better. I think discipling people may only be able to be done a few at a time."

    9. Consider discipleship in the non-seeker church.

    Some megachurches do not have weekend seeker services and a midweek believers service. They gear the weekend worship and preaching to believers. At least the seeker churches are spending the tremendous amount of resources on reaching the unchurched. The megachurches that are believer-centered need to doubly ask whether their expenditures are justified. Are they reaching the unchurched? Are people really growing in their discipleship? Attracting believers with a good show is even less justifiable than attracting unbelievers.

    10. Consider the consequences of over-valuing excellence.

    Another friend writes:

    "Oftentimes, one of the values of the megachurch, especially Willow Creek is 'Excellence honors God and inspires people.' It sounds nice, but the services can come across at times feeling fake, plastic and like a production. And if you are not excellent, you will not be up front very often. (Therefore, leadership development is at a minimum — it is much easier to fly in and pay an outside guest speaker than to allow younger, green behind the ears leaders in the church to grow in their teaching ability)."

    11. Consider the danger of a selfish mentality creeping in.

    My friend writes:

    "If not careful, it can truly breed an unhealthy consumerism mentality. Specializing in everything to cater to our every need (affinity groups, a cafe in the lobby, Sunday school programs for children that are incredible, etc) isn't always bad, but can foster a "its all about me" mentality."

    Note:

    For more information on specific megachurches, see the data compiled by the Hartford Institute for Religious Research here.

    See also the latest report by the Hartford Institute (Feb 2006). It is an excellent summary of the latest statistical findings regarding the megachurch. It is available as a free download here. They also have a church staff salary survey posted as well for free download at the Leadership Network. Large churches pay their pastors well!