Here are my answers to the Frequently Asked Questions I get about doing a doctorate in theology. In this post, I address the difference between the Duke Th.D and. Ph.D. programs, discuss financial stipends, dissertations, the application process, job prospects, and some thoughts on the Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.) degree offered at some theological schools.
I am doing my Th.D. at Duke and wrote this in my second year of the program. I am happy to be corrected by emails to me or comments below. I get lots of emails from people about the Th.D. program at Duke and so I thought I would just try to put this information in a blog post to be helpful. This information should not be taken as absolutely correct but rather can serve as an introduction to the issues so that you can ask good questions to faculty and program directors who know what they are talking about.
What is the difference between the Duke Th.D. and Ph.D. program in theology?
- Read the official information on the respective websites: Doctor of Theology degree at Duke Divinity School and Graduate Program in Religion's website and Graduate Program in Religion at Duke University. Update May 3, 2009: the FAQ for the Th.D. program has been updated and is excellent.
- I understand why people are confused about the Th.D. and Ph.D. at Duke. The Th.D. program is only three years old. Let’s start with the basics because it is easy to be confused. The Th.D. is from Duke Divinity School–part of Duke University. The Ph.D. is from the Graduate Program in Religion at Duke University. Like Duke, Harvard University has a Ph.D. and Harvard Divinity School has a Th.D.. Compare the Duke Divinity School faculty with the Graduate Program in Religion faculty–there is some overlap. Mark Goodacre, a professor in the Graduate Program in Religion, says the best way of saying this is: "The Graduate Program in Religion is made up of faculty from both the Department of Religion and the Divinity School." At Duke University, you can take courses in any part of the university (with some limitations) so courses are not an issue. Many courses are cross-listed as both Duke Divinity School courses and Religion courses. I have not mentioned that the Graduate Program in Religion offices are located in the Divinity School building. No wonder people have trouble understanding the difference.
- The first group of Th.D. students started in August 2006. I started in August 2007. They just sent out acceptance letters to the fourth class of students in February 2009 who will start in August 2009. The Duke Ph.D. program had its first graduates in 1939.
- They are very similar programs. They have similar requirements (coursework, languages, preliminary exams, dissertation proposal, dissertation) though there are some procedural differences. For example, the preliminary exams process has to do with “fields” in the Ph.D. program and “concentrations” in the Th.D. program. The Ph.D. program entails 4 preliminary exams and the Th.D. program entails 3 preliminary exams. You can take classes with the same professors.
- The Th.D. and Ph.D. students take classes together and hang out with one another. The discipline-specific colloquiums include both Th.D. and Ph.D. students. For example, people interested in theology (Th.D. and Ph.D.) talk to each other a lot.
- My understanding is that the best funding for the Th.D. is: tuition covered with a $13,000 per year stipend for 4 years (but the packages vary). Th.D. students purchase their own health insurance through Duke individually (age 26 to 34, the annual charge is $1,690/yr.) and if they wish for their spouse and children. My understanding is that the Ph.D. program offers: tuition covered with a $20,000 per year stipend for 5 years and individual health insurance for the individual student. (Students with families may elect to pay an additional premium for family coverage just like the Th.D. students). I know Th.D. and Ph.D. students whose children have health insurance through Medicaid. Spouses tend to work and bring in some additional income and/or people take out student loans.
- Note how similar the Ph.D. and Th.D. stipend numbers are to stipend statistics published in the Chronicle of Higher Education. "For instance, biology departments reported an average research-assistant stipend of $18,200 for an appointment that typically lasts a full 12 months. Students in English, however, got an average teaching-assistant stipend of $13,387 for an academic year." From "Graduate Students' Pay and Benefits Vary Widely, Survey Shows" By AUDREY WILLIAMS JUNE in the Chronicle of Higher Education December 5, 2008.
- My understanding is that the Duke Th.D. program this year accepted 9 students out of 75 applicants. The Th.D. website has a description of concentrations. You have a primary and secondary area of concentration; you do preliminary exams in both.
- See Student Profiles with all of the concentrations listed. Here is a partial list of the "concentrations" of some of the people in the program in the first four classes—(the repetition is intentional). Some listed below are combined primary and secondary concentrations; for others it is just a primary concentration–I don't know which.
- Bible and Christian practices
- Christian formation and creation care
- Evangelism and culture
- Evangelism and ecclesiology
- Homiletics
- Homiletics
- Homiletics and reconciliation
- Homiletics and reconciliation
- New Testament
- OT Theology & Ethics
- Theological Aesthetics
- Theology (Friendship)
- Theology and aesthetics
- Theology and Christian formation
- Theology and Pedagogy
- Theology, narrative, and community
- Theology, politics, and culture
- Theology, politics, and culture
- Wesleyan theology and practices
- Youth Ministry / Education
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My understanding is that Duke's Graduate Program in Religion Ph.D. program takes about one student per year for each of its 11 fields.
1. Hebrew Bible/Old Testament
2. New Testament
3. Early Christianity
4. European Christianity
5. American Religion
6. History of Judaism
7. Islamic Studies
8. Christian Theological Studies
9. Religion and Modernity
10. Asian Religions
11. Religion and Modernity
- To be exact, in the last 2 years, they have made 9 offers each year. See Duke University Graduate School Admissions and Enrollment Statistics (PhD Religion Only).
- I am told that the Christian Theological Studies has 70 applicants for one spot. New Testament has perhaps 50 applications for one spot. But I am told that some of the fields may have only 3 applications for one spot. In the eleven fields in the Graduate Program in Religion, they accepted 9 out of 207 applicants total in 2008-2009.
What kind of work/ministry do Th.D/Ph.D. students hope to do in the future?
- Like the Ph.D., the Th.D. prepares someone to serve as a professor at the college, seminary and graduate school level (both secular and Christian schools). It is possible that people will end up working for churches, denominations, publishing houses, parachurch organizations, and missions organizations but the degree is not primarily about that. It is hard to know how hard it will be to find a job. If we posit that there will be similar opportunities for Th.D. students as there are for Ph.D. students, I would say the outlook is mixed. Some Duke Ph.D. students have gotten jobs at great schools; some have gotten jobs at not-so-great schools; and some have had a hard time finding them. See the DUKE UNIVERSITY GRADUATE SCHOOL PH.D. PLACEMENT DATA FOR STUDENTS GRADUATED IN 2000-2007–Religion. Are you interested in academia as a career? Remember this is 4-7 years of full-time study—average 5.8. (See Duke University Median Registered Time to Degree to Ph.D. for Students Entering in 1997-2002 (Years)—Religion). Updated Dec 2, 2011: average 5.7 Duke University Median Registered Time to Degree to Ph.D. for Students Entering in 2000-2005 (Years) Religion.
- For a sober view of the hiring scene, see the article Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go: It's hard to tell young people that universities view their idealism and energy as an exploitable resource. By THOMAS H. BENTON in The Chronicle in Higher Education column AN ACADEMIC IN AMERICA, January 30, 2009.
- See the Graduate Program in Religion Alumni Directory.
- Update: Note also Duke Ph.D student Maria's good comments below about her sense that people who want to teach at a non-Christian university or college are probably better off doing the Ph.D. and those interested in working in a Christian college, university or seminary are more likely to be in the Th.D. program. I think she is generally right BUT there are lots of exceptions to that (which she acknowledges). For example, there are many Ph.D. grads at Duke from the fields of Christian Theological Studies and New Testament that have ended up at Christian institutions: Christian Theological Studies (William T. Cavanaugh–University of St. Thomas, Telford Work–Westmont College, Jonathan Wilson–Carey Theological College, Glen Stassen, John L. Thompson, Robert K. Johnston–Fuller Theological Seminary, John Jefferson Davis–Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, Beth Felker Jones–Wheaton College) and New Testament (Craig Keener–Palmer Theological Seminary, Marianne Meye Thompson, Love L. Sechrest, J. R. Daniel Kirk, Fuller Theological Seminary, Rollin Grams–Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, Leroy A. Huizenga–Wheaton College, James H. Charlesworth, C. Clifton Black, J. Ross Wagner, Beverly Roberts Gaventa–Princeton Theological Seminary) And I know a few of the Th.D. students hope to be in secular universities and colleges. Again though I would agree with Maria in general that the Th.D. tends to lead you toward Christian settings whereas as the Ph.D. tends to be more diverse.
- See also Regent College professor John Stackhouse’s post:Qualifications for Teaching at a Small Christian College November 22, 2008
- See also the sober post by Keith Drury, a professor at Indiana Wesleyan University, on what a college professor of religion actually does each week (80 hours for him) and how to break into college teaching. H/T Russ Veldman.
Do you have access to all the incredible faculty at the Duke Divinity School and Duke University? Is that through coursework, or just as advisers?
- You take 12 courses in the Th.D (3 per semester for four semesters). You can basically take the 12 courses with anyone you want.
Did your seminary work adequately prepare you for doctoral work?
- Yes, seminary prepared me well and I bet your seminary prepared you fairly well. But one needs to be passionate about the field they are interested in and to have read beyond seminary courses. Reading needs to be a barely-in-control-passion in your life. :-) See the next question about the difficulty of getting in.
- Reading Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Wesley, Barth and MacIntrye will serve you well. Schleiermacher, Kant, Yoder, Hauerwas, and Milbank wouldn't hurt too. Besides reading their foundational works, I wonder if reading a biography about each of these theologians might be the best way to orient oneself to their theology and context.
- You might want to read secondary sources that orient you to postliberalism which is what many at Duke have wrestled with—few would still label themselves that way—who likes labels?—but most operate from a position close to postliberalism at Duke Divinity School. (For evangelicals, this is actually not that different from what you believe even though you may never have heard of it—see the works below).
- The Nature of Confession
- The Nature of Doctrine by George A. Lindbeck
- Beyond Liberalism and Fundamentalism by Nancey Murphy
- Introducing Radical Orthodoxy by James K. A. Smith
Do you have any advice for me on applying to the Th.D./Ph.D. program?
To get into a first-tier program that provides a stipend, you must be special in some way and you must be adequate in most every area.
- GPA (Duke Ph.D.Religion averages 3.6 undergraduate GPA)
- GRE (Duke Ph.D.Religion averages 729 Verbal and 739 Quantitative). Th.D. FAQ #6: "There is no specific minimum score. Students admitted to the Th.D. through our first four years had a mean GRE verbal score of 690 and a mean GRE quantitative score of 655." See my post How to Study for the GRE.
- Writing sample (See mine on Bonhoeffer here).
- Languages (See my website Theological German: Advice and Resources.
- Previous quality of schools you attended
- References: quality, connections, and impressiveness of people giving references and how highly they rave about you.
- Personal Statement (like a cover letter. “This is why I want to study at your school . . .” ).
- Previous publications.
- Visit—personal impression you made of intellect and social skills.
- Inside connections
- Previous teaching experience at high school or college level and/or compelling ministry experience and/or international experience
- A compelling story and vision for publishing, teaching and ethics in the future
- Diversity
- Th.M. from Princeton Seminary, Duke, Cambridge, Oxford, Yale Divinity (called a S.T.M.), or another school might help.
- Masters degrees or doctoral degrees (MBA, M.D., J.D.) in other areas in addition to your 3 year—MDiv or 2 year—Masters of Theology would be a bonus.
- Be in touch with the director of the Th.D./Ph.D. program at the schools of your interest if you have questions.
I would visit on your own dime all the schools you want to go to. Get familiar with the work of 4-5 professors who you like from the school. Then visit and meet with the professors—one-on-one appointments for 15 minutes each all in one day; plus one with the Th.D./Ph.D. program director. You want to be able to name why the school is the best possible place for you to study because your interests coincide with A, B, C and D professors and that they could uniquely prepare you in your areas of interest. (See also Maria's comment below that she didn't visit and still got in to the Ph.D. program).
I think it is pretty hard to get into a school without the inside knowledge of how to get in (whether that be an acquaintance who is there who gives you the scoop or a professor who wants you.) I don't mean to paint it too scary but I did not get in anywhere in my first round of applications (0 for 5 the first year) and then got in at 3 out of the 5 places I applied the second year after talking to people. (Details in the comments below). Get your friends and others (at the school ideally) to help you with your statement and sample writing.
Basically, you have a better chance of getting more scholarship money and a better chance at getting a job at "first-tier" schools. (See Stackhouse and Gupta links below). Duke professors seem to have strong relationships with Yale University, Emory University, Princeton Theological Seminary, University of Chicago, and Notre Dame so one hears a lot about these schools at Duke but it depends on the field what schools are first tier institutions. A professor or author you respect can easily tell you their opinion of what schools to consider and you can weigh their opinion.
See also:
- My post about my Th.D./Ph.D. application process. I wrote it at the time I was applying to programs but I think the advice still stands.
- Regent College professor (Ph.D. from University of Chicago) John Stackhouse’s Weblog post: Thinking about a Ph.D.?
- Durham (UK) Ph.D. student Nijay Gupta's post about New Testament Ph.D. programs applies to many other programs.
What's the big deal about dissertations? What will your dissertation be about?
First a couple comments about dissertations.
(a) It is difficult to finish one. It is long solitary work on some piece of obscure scholarship. Therefore people say things like, "A finished dissertation is a good dissertation." "Write for your adviser not the whole world." "Unleash all your creativity and genius in your second book–not your dissertation." "Limit its scope. Write the __________ topic in the writing of __________ scholar." "Let each of your 12 seminar papers be dissertation chapters if possible." "Remember that everything one writes is in some sense unfinished." I recommend How to Write a Lot by Paul J. Silvia for advice about churning out lots of written work–everyone should read it.
(b) You can get hired before your dissertation is completed and be ABD (All But Dissertation) but then you carry the heavy burden of trying to finish this obscure piece of scholarship while you are preparing lectures for introductory courses to undergraduates and grading their papers. These are two very different ends of the academic spectrum and therefore one should try very hard to finish the dissertation before starting work as a professor. For balancing teaching and writing, I highly recommend Advice for New Faculty Members by Robert Boice.
Note the similar advice of Steven Cahn from a review of his book From Student to Scholar: A Candid Guide to Becoming a Professor (Columbia University Press, 2008). JAMES M. LANG, "'From Student to Scholar': A senior professor writes a new guide for graduate students on pursuing a faculty career," February 3, 2009, Chronicle of Higher Education.
In the conclusion to his first chapter, "Graduate School," Cahn asks, and answers, a question in a way that I think most graduate students need to hear: "What is the most important ingredient for success in graduate school? Many might answer 'brilliance.' I, however, would choose 'resiliency.'" As he points out, most students who are admitted into graduate schools are capable of handling the work on an intellectual level. Many students who end their graduate careers prematurely do so because they have become discouraged by the endless series of tasks and obstacles that lie in the way of the degree — not because they have been unable to hack the academic work. Thus, when he sees students walk across the stage to receive their Ph.D.'s, he writes, "I'm not convinced that all the recipients possess remarkable intellectual talents. I am certain, though, that every one has demonstrated the power to persevere." On the time needed to complete a dissertation, Cahn's advice is equally brisk and demanding: "Any time beyond two years is excessive. Indeed, I would expect the task to be completed in 12 to 18 months." That advice might sound hard to graduate students in the midst of dissertation projects that seem to stretch out endlessly before them. But projects that run far beyond the normal time frame often do so because the students want to produce that perfect book, and so they bog themselves down in revisions — hoping to pre-empt their mentors — and turn in a near-finished product. In the end, as Cahn points out, "no one will ask you whether your dissertation was passed with major or minor revisions. All that matters is that you have fulfilled every requirement for the degree."
My dissertation is still being developed–that is more of a third year thing and I am in the second year–but my paper on John Howard Yoder on my blog is probably the best thing to see the direction I am interested in: leadership, ecclesiology, mission, church planting, evangelism—the church functioning at its best. I’m interested in questions like: What is the theological basis of the church? What are the dangers the church faces today theologically given an array of sociological data? What should new and innovative churches focus on theologically? What should established churches focus on? I would love to tease out these themes in the form of a commentary on 1 Corinthians—but I think that is too ambitious. I have put a list of Eight Important Theological Books to me on my blog. Update May 3, 2009: I have given you the latest draft of my research topic at: My Th.D. program progress update
Is the Th.D. a "practical theology" degree?
No. "Practical theology" does not have the best reputation everywhere because it has a reputation for being associated with liberal theology and liberation theology in particular—partly because it was Schleiermacher’s idea. This is not altogether fair—see Practical Theology: An Introduction by Richard Osmer at Princeton Theological Seminary and The Shape of Practical Theology: Empowering Ministry With Theological Praxis by Ray Anderson at Fuller Theological Seminary—both people I like very much. In evangelical settings, the term may not be related to any of these prior meanings; rather it just means "theological reflection on Christian ministry" or "practical ministry skills."
What do you personally want to do with your Th.D. degree when you finish?
I want to teach church leadership at a seminary but I might pastor again. We'll see what kind of offers I get and my wife's dreams—it is her turn next.
If the Th.D. is an academic degree, why is your blog written at a more popular level for church leaders rather than for academics?
First, I want to teach at a seminary and I was a pastor and so I am interested in church leadership issues. Second, it is a way for me to keep a foot in the practical while I have a foot in the academy. Third, I am doing my academic work precisely so that I can help others more wisely address ordinary church issues—this is a chance to keep testing that out. Fourth, I realize that many of my blog entries are long and not easy for everyone to read and thus not as accessible as they could be! Partly, I write long stuff because I assume some level of theological education. But the other issue is that everything written on my blog could be written better! My attitude toward the blog is to "write something—even imperfectly—because if I don't now, I may never return to addressing it and it is something I want to put out there because it might help someone."
What do you think of the D.Min.?
I like them. Pastors usually do a Doctor of Ministry degree part-time while they are doing ministry. It gives them a chance to reflect, read, and write in a disciplined way with insightful colleagues and advisers. Yay! I think churches should encourage pastors to do the D.Min. work and pay a portion of each class they complete—perhaps 2/3 of the tuition. It is good for pastors and churches to have reflective pastors.
Pretty much everyone says that the D.Min. degrees vary in quality—some are easier than others. Of course that is not unique to D.Min. programs—ask people about MBA programs or law schools and how they vary.
Duke Divinity School does not offer a D.Min now offers a D.Min!. I hear people recommending those at Fuller Theological Seminary, Princeton Theological Seminary and Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary–though there are many other excellent programs. [Later addition: Consider Bethel Seminary!]
The real issue people need to know about the D.Min. is that academic institutions like colleges, universities and seminaries will not see them as an academic doctorate—therefore someone with a D.Min. will not be considered to have a terminal degree—the highest academic qualifications for a position. For example, a school looking for a preaching professor will put the Ph.D. and Th.D. resumes to the top of the pile whereas the D.Min. applications will be mixed in with or just above the MDiv applications. This does not mean that they will not end up hiring someone with a D.Min. but they will hire that person for their other credentials—they have written 10 books and pastored a church of 2,000 for 30 years—not because they have a D.Min.. Again, I love D.Min’s and I think people who do them should be compensated for their efforts and praised and encouraged. But it is understandable that an institution will value a D.Min. differently from a Ph.D./Th.D. which was earned with 3-7 years of full-time study when a D.Min. was earned part-time over three years. Again, 90% of the time the person with the D.Min. has better ministry skills and pastoral sensibilities than the Ph.D./Th.D. graduate! But the Ph.D./Th.D. graduate has demonstrated a degree of academic perseverance that the D.Min. person has not (unless they have written a few books).
What about doing a Ph.D. part-time?
I don't know the answer to this but I will give you some leads.
See
- Fuller Theological Seminary – Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Intercultural Studies (California)
- Durham University – PhD – Department of Theology and Religion (UK)
- Regent University – Ph.D. in Organizational Leadership (Virginia)
- University of Birmingham – PhD – Theology and Religion (UK)
- University of Wales – Lampeter – PhD – Department of Theology and Religious Studies (UK)
- King's College London – PhD – Theology & Religious Studies (UK)
- London School of Theology – PhD – Doctor of Philosophy (UK)
- University of Manchester – PhD – Religions & Theology (UK)
- University of Exeter – PhD – Department of Theology (UK)
- University of Stirling – PhD – School of Languages, Cultures & Religions (UK)
For UK programs see page 92 of Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) 2008: December 2008 (PDF) (ranking 61): Theology, Divinity and Religious Studies.
Someone else wrote me:
London School of Theology has a strong reputation internationally, but isn't as well known here. They have a relationship with Asbury. Asbury also has a relationship with University of Manchester / Nazarene Theological Seminary. The University of Wales – Lampeter has a relationship with Vancouver School of Theology. All of these allow for part-time PhD studies with one trip overseas. Of course Durham allows for two trips each year for part-timers . . . By the way Exeter in the UK allows for one trip over per year and usually four months residency over the course of the programme. Birmingham is the same, but "normally" the student is expected to reside in Birmingham for six months. There might be some flexibility in the six months, but I'm not sure. Exeter and Birmingham supposedly have reduced costs for split-site students. So far, I don't think Durham has any reduction in costs, which is surprising – you get the same level of supervision (they say) but you are not using their research facilities. I'm not sure, but I think the PhD's awarded by the London School of Theology are through Manchester or Brunel. I would prefer Durham I think, but the costs are significant and there are not many financial aid options for part-timers.
See also Russ Veldman exploring South African schools.
For other related posts about the Th.D. program and seminaries, you can try my categories:
See also my post:
Advice about moving to Durham, North Carolina
See also the updates and interesting new information in the comments below!
Comments
51 responses to “Advice about Duke Th.D. and Ph.D programs in theology”
Andy, thanks for posting this. This is very helpful info that makes an overwhelming process at least a little more understandable. I was wondering what you meant by this: “… I was 0 for 5 the first year and then 4 out of 5 the second year after talking to people.” Did you mean you were accepted into 4 out of 5 programs your second year?
Very helpful post! Thanks.
I noticed that the concentrations you listed are different from those posted on the DDS website. Can one basically decide on what they want to focus on?
Also, are you allowed to have a secondary concentration? I’m interested in Homiletics but would also like to study New Testament.
Thanks for posting these interesting reflections, Andy. I think a lot of people will find them very helpful. A few notes:
(1) The best place for information on the PhD is the Graduate Program in Religion’s website at http://www.duke.edu/web/gradreligion/ . We have recently worked on a major overhaul of this site. Unfortunately, it is one of the many sites at Duke that is suffering under the current crash. This is very frustrating — it has been going on since last Monday. I got so annoyed about my personal academic sites being unavailable that I moved them away permanently from Duke to their own web space. Hopefully, the Religion GPR site will be back on line again soon.
(2) The best place to see the graduate faculty in Religion is also that site, at http://www.duke.edu/web/gradreligion/about/faculty.htm, also down at the moment. You write “Some Duke Divinity School faculty serve as dual appointments in both schools.” I think that that is kind of true, but perhaps a clearer way of saying it would be that the Graduate Program in Religion is made up of faculty from both the Department of Religion and the Divinity School.
Thanks again for the helpful post.
Josh, yes, as you can see, there are not prescribed concentrations but it is probably smart to use similar language to what you see here or the official ones listed on the website.
http://www.divinity.duke.edu/academics/degrees/thd/concentrations
And Josh, yes, you are required to have a primary and secondary area of concentration for preliminary exams and so Homiletics and New Testament would be fine.
See http://www.divinity.duke.edu/academics/degrees/thd/cos/document_view
My concentration is “The Practice of Leading Religious Communities and Institutions” which I changed to “The Practice of Leading Christian Communities and Institutions” and which I call for short “Church Leadership” and what some call “Evangelism.” My secondary concentration is New Testament.
Mark, I so appreciate you reading through this. (For those of you who don’t know, Mark is a faculty member in the Graduate Program in Religion and a very fine New Testament scholar). I have added the websites you suggested to the main body of the post and also added your correction about faculty associations so that people will not be misled. Thank you, thank you, thank you–obviously I only know what I need to know about this kind of thing whereas a faculty member understands this kind of thing much better so I am relieved to have it stated more accurately. I do hope my post adds clarity rather than more confusion–I think the post will give people an approximation of what is going on so they can ask better questions. Thanks again, Mark.
Andy, this is a helpful post, although I’m not sure that capturing the difference between Ph.D. and Th.D. at Duke is at all easy — particularly in light of the fact that other schools (e.g., Harvard) have their main program listed as a Th.D.
When people ask me which program they should choose, I usually ask them where they would ultimately like to teach. I suspect that the Th.D. is the better preparation for a future of working in a Christian setting — college, seminary, etc. — whereas the Ph.D., at least in my field (Early Christianity), is more aimed at sending people into universities and liberal arts colleges (… I am not aware of any students from this focus-area teaching in seminaries or divinity schools. Of course, I know that that’s not the case for, say, NT graduates.)
It also seems to me that while your confessional background doesn’t matter for the Ph.D. (… we’ve got everything from atheists through all the world religions …) one would probably expect a Christian background of some sort for Th.D. students.
On the whole, though, I also wanted to send an encouraging note to those who do not have the money to see schools “on their own dime” — I wasn’t in a position to do so and not-visiting didn’t in the end hurt my chances. Besides, most schools, including Duke, will fly out students in whom they are particularly interested to visit and interview in person. That being said, your advice re: visits is, of course, very sound — but just in case your readers find themselves short on time or money, failing to visit won’t be the death-knell to their applications 🙂
Maria is correct in all she says. She gets to the heart of the matter here that I somehow failed to mention.
She notes that people who want to teach at a non-Christian university or college are probably better off doing the Ph.D. and those interested in working in a Christian college, university or seminary are more likely be in the Th.D. program. I think she is generally right BUT there are lots of exceptions to that (which she acknowledges). As she says, my bet is that Ph.D. grads in Christian Theological Studies and New Testament end up at Christian institutions as often as secular institutions. For example: Christian Theological Studies (William T. Cavanaugh–University of St. Thomas, Telford Work–Westmont College, Jonathan Wilson–Carey Theological College, Glen Stassen, John L. Thompson, Robert K. Johnston–Fuller Theological Seminary, John Jefferson Davis–Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, Beth Felker Jones–Wheaton College) and New Testament (Craig Keener–Palmer Theological Seminary, Marianne Meye Thompson, Love L. Sechrest, J. R. Daniel Kirk, Fuller Theological Seminary, Rollin Grams–Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary, Leroy A. Huizenga–Wheaton College, James H. Charlesworth, C. Clifton Black, J. Ross Wagner, Beverly Roberts Gaventa–Princeton Theological Seminary) And I know a few of the Th.D. students hope to be in secular universities and colleges. Again though I would agree with Maria in general that Th.D. tends to be lead you toward Christian settings whereas as the Ph.D. tends to be more diverse.
Thank you Maria. That was a glaring omission. I have added a comment in the text pointing to your comment.
No problem, Andy — and thank you for so amply demonstrating the number of colleagues from different focal areas who have gone on to do wonderful work at Christian colleges and seminaries. (Indeed, I’ve very much enjoyed working with John, Marianne, Glen, Rob and, to a more limited extent, Love during my M.A. 🙂
I may send you a document I put together a couple of years ago on “how to brave the Ph.D. application process”. If you felt it might benefit your readers, I would be happy for you to make it public.
Best,
Maria
Maria,
Sure, that would be great. I would definitely love your Ph.D. advice.
Everyone,
I have just added above the feature to my blog:
“You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.”
Hi Andy. Thanks for your kind comments. The good news is that the GPR pages are back online again now. Steadily, Duke appears to be recovering from this big crash, though all personal academic pages (at http://www.duke.edu/~ etc.) are still down.
You said that the PhD accepts a certain amount of students based on which field they want to study, maybe 1 student per field. Is this the case for the ThD as well?
Josh, I’m not sure how the Th.D. selection process works. There is a committee and they pick applicants to be admitted–8 this year. You may have a better chance getting in, if you propose working with professors that have fewer doctoral students already working with them. But it is not strictly a “draft” where each professor gets to choose someone. Eventually, Th.D. students choose someone to be their Prelim Exam advisor and later to be their dissertation advisor but this is not set in stone in the application process.
In three different sections above, I just added three links to Chronicle of Higher Education articles which discuss stipends, the chances of getting hired, and the dissertation.
This is a fantastic post, thank you. Wish I’d had something like this to refer to three years ago!
I’m currently in the Practical Theology Th.D. program at Boston University, focusing on missiology. They are now offering a Ph.D. within the School of Theology, and I may convert, but there are many issues around these degrees which you have indicated. For me the key issue is one that you have not yet mentioned, that of an ordained person seeking one of these degrees. As a pastor I cannot imagine leaving the local church entirely and yet I feel passionate about the study of mission and the need for education around issues of missiology. Which degree I seek and how I write that lonely long dissertation are connected to my ordination and the church.
Again, thank you.
Andy,
I know that you aren’t currently looking for teaching jobs, but have you found or heard that there are a lot more job openings in the practical fields?
http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2962
According to the article that I posted above, it looks like the academy needs more teachers in C.E., homiletics, church leadership, etc.
Lisa,
Thanks for weighing in. My friend Steven Porter was at Boston University and speaks very highly of Bryan Stone and Dana Robert and others.
As to your question about long-term staying in the church and getting a Ph.D for academic work, I would simply say that there are lots of adjunct and part-time professor positions available and so I think it is possible (if one so chooses) to both be in a leadership position at a church and serve part-time in the academy. I may end up doing it as I love the church and theological education.
The article cited above “Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don’t Go” http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/01/2009013001c.htm emphasizes the trend that there are less and less full-time positions being made available for professors so you may be forced into it! Schools can trim their budgets by hiring adjuncts and part-timers–paying them far less than tenured faculty track positions and not offering them health-care. A seminary or theological school that did this (and this is standard practice at some schools especially extension campuses) would have professors with day-to-day pastoral experience BUT the adjuncts will often not provide the same level of availability and investment in students and the time to do research. It is conceivable someone could be a great pastor and great professor at the same time but I think usually it is difficult to do both well–it is difficult to give yourself to two communities. At Duke Divinity School, Bill Turner models this approach–teaching preaching http://www.divinity.duke.edu/portal_memberdata/wturner and pastoring http://www.mtlevelbaptist.org/
Also Sam Wells and (Will Willimon before him) as Dean of the Chapel http://www.chapel.duke.edu/staff/viewprofile.aspx?id=103 and a professor http://www.divinity.duke.edu/portal_memberdata/swells fulfills a similar function–but this is a unique situation and the Duke Chapel and Duke Divinity Schools worlds are geographically connected to a a great degree. Craig Barnes might be another example–pastoring at Shadyside Presbyterian Church and teaching at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. http://www.pts.edu/barnesc
Josh, I really don’t know if there are more positions available for people in the more practical fields “C.E., homiletics, church leadership, etc.” though I did use Thomas Long’s article in my application–arguing that there was a need for people like me! 🙂
Here is how I began my personal statement:
Thomas Long of Emory University has written that there is a critical need for people who have experience teaching ministerial studies and who also have the ability to do outstanding scholarship: “Theological schools are looking for a rare commodity: teachers of the ministry arts who are able practitioners as well as well-trained research scholars able to move nimbly across interdisciplinary lines.” Thomas Long, “The Crisis in Practical Theology,” The Christian Century, February 24, 2004, 30-33.
Thank you for your feedback and the links, Andy. Grace and peace!
A masters level student wrote me saying that he really wants to get two Ph.D. degrees: one in Old Testament and one in theology.
Here is my response:
1. In answer to your question about whether it would hurt you having a doctorate to get into another doctoral program. No, having another doctorate would not hurt you getting into a Ph.D. program. We have a student in the Th.D. program who is an MD and another who has a Ph.D. in English and is a professor of English at Duke.
2. You are right to be interested in more than one narrow field. Many professors have more than one interest and over the course of a scholar’s career they are able to delve into those areas.
3. In Germany, you need to write two dissertations: one gets you your doctorate and the other one to be a “professor”–the second is called the Habilitationsschrift. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habilitation. Miroslav Volf did his Habilitationsschrift with Jurgen Moltmann–the book After Our Likeness. Bonhoeffer’s dissertation was Sanctorum Communio and his Habilitationsschrift was Act and Being. Similarly, to get tenure at a institution like Duke, you have to produce a second piece of significant academic work in addition to your dissertation. Stan Grenz thought about doing a second doctorate in ethics but Pannenberg told him just to write a book on ethics–which he did The Moral Quest. I think that is standard advice: get the Ph.D. and then write significant books and articles that demonstrate your strength as scholar–not get another doctorate.
4. I would dissuade you from thinking about doing two doctorates in religion. There really is no need to do so. You can do everything you would like to do as a professor that you could do as a doctoral student. As a doctoral student you grade the papers of other professors’ courses, read what your advisors tell you to read, and most often do not get paid a living wage. It is intended to be a temporary vocation. As a professor you can still do research. You can win grants to do research (e.g. http://www.ats.edu/LeadershipEducation/Documents/Grants/2008-09LillyGrantRecipients.pdf ) and you get sabbaticals but unlike a doctoral student, you get paid a full salary As a professor, you design and teach your own courses with the books you have chosen and others help you with administrative jobs such as secretaries and students. You can still publish, travel, and present at conferences. If you did doctorates in Old Testament and Theology, people would think you were strange–not smart and accomplished. If however you had what they call the “range” to publish in scholarly peer-reviewed journals in both Old Testament and theology and to publish books with respected publishers in both fields, people would be impressed.
5. You could combine the two topics in your dissertation and look at the way a certain theologian used the Pentateuch or you could use your theological grid to address some issue in the Pentateuch. A theology Ph.D. tends to be more flexible to do something like that. But I would assume if you did something in OT, you would want to do something that has theological significance even if you could not explicitly state those implications in the context of a Hebrew Bible dissertation. You might check out Peter Enns and Stephen Chapman’s discussion about the Bible: http://aboulet.com/2008/11/03/enns-chapman-audio-now-available/ as an example of Old Testament scholars discussing theological issues. Iain Provan, Walter Moberly, and Walter Brueggemann are OT scholars known for their interest in theological issues and of course there are many, many more–all scholars not just OT scholars have theological interests of some kind (even if they are not aware of them)!
A new post from Jimmy McCarty who was accepted into Emory’s Ph.D. program in religion.
Tips on Applying to Ph.D. Programs
http://jimmymccarty.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/tips-on-applying-to-phd-programs/
I have done a post:
Advice about moving to Durham, NC
http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowell/2009/04/advice-about-moving-to-durham-nc.html
See R.R. Reno on theology programs.
On Graduate Study In Theology
First Things: On the Square – Apr 13, 2009
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=1374
Reno: Best Schools for Theology
By R.R. Reno
Wednesday, August 30, 2006, 9:14 AM
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/?p=447
I have fixed the links above and revised a few things given the thoroughly and excellently revised official Th.D. website that I noticed tonight. See http://www.divinity.duke.edu/academics/degrees/thd/
You also might be interested in my post:
My Th.D. program progress update
http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowell/2009/05/my-thd-program-progress-update.html
See also the advice of
Dr. Daniel J. Treier
Associate Professor of Theology,
Wheaton College, IL
“PhD Preparation”
http://tryer.jottit.com/phd_preparation
I put up a new website to help people with learning Theological German
http://www.andyrowell.net/theological_german/
A 2009 Ranking of Graduate Programs in Theology
Oct 2, 2009
R.R. Reno
First Things On the Square blog
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2009/10/a-2009-ranking-of-graduate-programs-in-theology
“Duke and Notre Dame remain at the top.”
John P. has his advice now posted:
How to Get Accepted to a Theology/Religion PhD Program : The Series
http://penniman.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-to-get-accepted-to-theologyreligion.html
His interest is Historical Theology (Ancient and Medieval Church) and he is a doctoral student in New York City.
Dan Wallace, a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, suggests there is prejudice against DTS graduates in Ph.D. admissions.
See
Frustrations from the Front: The Myth of Theological Liberalism
~ Dan Wallace ~
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/11/frustrations-from-the-front-the-myth-of-theological-liberalism/
There are 402 comments on the post.
See especially the comments by TAVW who is a DTS and Duke graduate.
He has a number of insightful comments.
I thought his list of books in comment 145 was particularly interesting. He writes,
“At any rate, I think George A. Lindbeck’s seminal work “The Nature of Doctrine: Religion and Theology in a Postliberal Age” (Louisville: Westminster John Knox Press, 1984) is definitely worth checking out. Reinhard Hütter’s “Suffering Divine Things: Theology as Church Practice” (Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans Press, 2000) is also recommended as, apart from being remarkable in its own right, it is an excellent continuation and development of Lindbeck’s thesis (and, I must say, substantially better than Vanhoozer’s attempt at the same with his “canonical linguistic” approach; Vanhoozer does acknowledge Hütter’s text but in a manner that causes me to question whether or not he actually read it with any care, if at all). Also fantastic is Paul J. Griffiths’ newest work “Intellectual Appetite: A Theological Grammar” (Washington D.C.: Catholic University of America Press, 2009).* In addition, one could do worse than read Alasdair MacIntyre’s hugely important “Three Rival Versions of Moral Enquiry: Encyclopedia, Genealogy, and Tradition” (Notre Dame: University of Notre Dame Press, 1990) and “Whose Justice? Which Rationality?” (Notre Dame: University of Notre Dame Press, 1988). I can’t help but likewise recommend that the evangelical student read (in the following order) Nathan Hatch’s “The Democratization of American Christianity” (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1989), George Marsden’s “Fundamentalism and American Culture” (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2006), and Joel Carpenter’s “Revive Us Again: The Reawakening of American Fundamentalism” (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1997). It would also be worth the effort to investigate Nancey Murphy’s “Beyond Liberalism and Fundamentalism: How Modern and Postmodern Philosophy Set the Theological Agenda” (Harrisburg: Trinity Press International, 1996).”
And his comment 164.
For the record, I thought it might be helpful to recommend Stanley Hauerwas’ “The State of the University: Academic Knowledges and the Knowledge of God” (Oxford: Blackwell Publishing, 2007) as a useful resource for thinking through the kinds of issues we’ve been circling around here. In fact, if the role of God and/or theology in the modern “secular” university is of interest to you at all, Stanley’s is a book you really can’t miss.
Also, to supplement Dr. Wallace’s post on Fuller, George Marsden’s “Reforming Fundamentalism: Fuller Seminary and the New Evangelicalism” (Grand Rapids: William B. Eerdmans, 1987) and Rudolph Nelson’s “The Making and Unmaking of an Evangelical Mind: The Case of Edward Carnell” (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1987) provide nice historical forays, the former being more general in scope than the latter.”
Thanks for this, Andy. I especially appreciate your sensible comments over at Parchment and Pen.
Rob
Other doctoral programs:
16 December 2009
New PhD Stipends in Theology
University of Agder (Norway)
http://leronshults.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/12/new-phd-stipends-in-theology.html
Univ. of St. Andrews offers OT/NT PhD Scholarships
December 16, 2009
http://nijaygupta.wordpress.com/2009/12/16/univ-of-st-andrews-offers-otnt-phd-scholarships/
Though this piece was written a while ago it remains helpful as I apply for the Th.D. at Duke Div. for the fall of 2011.
Blessings,
Walter
I certainly enjoyed this post. After graduating from Fuller, I was told that Princeton, Fuller & Gordon-Conwell were basically the top 3 places to do a D.Min. I wanted to apply to Princeton, but they discontinued their D.Min program. Since I already had a degree from Fuller I elected to apply @ Gordon-Conwell and have really enjoyed the program there. I will be done next year. I am leaning toward making an application to work on a PhD @ Wales University. I’ll have 2 upper division degrees to meet their admissions requirements, and no GRE prep to contend with! This is a great web site, thanks for the wonderful resource & congratulations on the arrival of your little girl! Blessings.
See also the advice of James K. A. Smith about graduate school especially in philosophical theology. The third post recommends Duke among other schools and the fourth post gives some advice about Duke and Yale.
So You Want to Go to Grad School: Think Backwards
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-think.html
So You Want to Go to Grad School: Choosing a Discipline
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school.html
So You Want to Go to Grad School: Choosing Schools (1)
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_07.html
Choosing Schools (Philosophical Theology): Supplement
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/choosing-schools-philosophical-theology.html
School rankings:
R.R. Reno
2006
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2006/08/reno-best-schools-for-theology
2009
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2009/10/a-2009-ranking-of-graduate-programs-in-theology
2010
http://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/10/schools-of-thought
James KA Smith: series of posts. He ranks theology and philosophy programs:
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/search/label/So%20you%20want%20to%20go%20to%20grad%20school
http://www.nap.edu/rdp/
http://chronicle.com/page/NRC-Rankings/321/
R rankings:
1. DUKE UNIVERSITY
2. UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
3. UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
4. EMORY UNIVERSITY
5. HARVARD UNIVERSITY
6. YALE UNIVERSITY
7. BROWN UNIVERSITY
8. UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA
9. BOSTON COLLEGE
10. UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL
S rankings:
1. DUKE UNIVERSITY
2. UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL
3. PRINCETON UNIVERSITY
4. UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO
5. EMORY UNIVERSITY
6. HARVARD UNIVERSITY
7. YALE UNIVERSITY
8. BROWN UNIVERSITY
9. UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
10. BOSTON COLLEGE
Someone asked about how to survive financially with a wife and two kids.
Here was my answer.
Financially it would be similar to what it is for MDiv students which is not great.
Most people need some kind of funding to live on besides the stipend of $13,000 per year or whatever it is nowadays. Ph.D. students may get $20,000 and health care insurance.
For people with kids, usually either the student or the spouse work in addition to the student “studying full-time.” I put this in quotes because this is infinitely variable and varies between 10 hours a week and 50. It is often difficult to tell the difference unless you follow them around and keep a log on them. Some people procrastinate and waste time. Others are driven and focused.
Most people precept: $2,400 per class X 2 per semester X 2 semesters = $9600 per year. This also takes about 20 hours a week. And this is part of your stipend though you can choose not to precept (and also not get the money).
Yes, many people use Medicaid and WIC and maybe food stamps.
4 MAIN OPTIONS:
1) Spouse works and makes 35K+, student studies ostensibly “full-time.” Kids may be in day care or school full-time or part-time.
Work of spouse:
Duke: clerical or secretarial
Duke: medical doctor
Retail
Teacher
Church
Doctoral student
Non-profit
2) Spouse works part-time and makes 15K+, student studies ostensibly “full-time.” Kids may be in full-time or part-time daycare or school or at home full-time.
Work of spouse:
Church
Doctoral student
3) Spouse does not work. Student studies ostensibly “full-time” and works. Kids may be in full-time or part-time daycare or school or at home full-time.
Additional work by student:
Spanish translation in court system
Writing center
Kaplan
Pastor
Duke Youth Academy
Duke hospital
Tutoring
4) People supplement deficits with student loans.
Remember, the average time to finish the Ph.D. program in religion is 5.7 years and the Th.D. program is an equivalent program.
Another cold (and by that I mean realistic and correct) view of the Ph.D. process:
March 27, 2012
Graduate School Is a Means to a Job
By Karen Kelsky
http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-School-Is-a-Means-to/131316/
See also:
Peter Enns
Some Unasked for Advice on Whether an Evangelical Should Get a PhD in Biblical Studies
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/peterenns/2012/06/some-unasked-for-advice-on-whether-an-evangelical-should-get-a-phd-in-biblical-studies/
Here’s my comment there:
I am a doctoral student at Duke and agree with
everything Pete writes here. This goes for church
history, biblical studies, systematic theology,
and practical theology. While my friends from
Princeton Theological Seminary, Duke and Harvard
have generally gotten jobs after a couple years
of searching, they have usually had 1 job
offer–not multiple ones. And as Pete says, the
mood is generally very dark in the academic world
with regard to jobs: “Ph.D. = Please hire.
Desperate.” or “Pizza Hut Driver.” See
http://www.personal.psu.edu/xxy110/blogs/xin_yan/
2008/11/funny-graduate-school—what-phd-really-
stands-for.html or
http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php
I have just recently heard reports from people
with Ph.D.’s from Emory, Aberdeen, Baylor,
Durham, and Yale having significant trouble
finding positions and those are very fine
schools. Even here at Duke, which is famously one
of the happiest places to get a doctorate in the
theological disciplines: people are getting
divorced, taking out loans, working side jobs,
and on WIC and Medicaid and food stamps.
I especially like to encourage people who are
already pastoring to consider continuing to
exercise their writing, teaching, and reading
interests as pastors–that being a professor is
not massively more fulfilling–that they may
already be in a very good “profession.” (Though I
realize of course some people with an interest in
a Ph.D. who might be effective professors cannot
see themselves pastoring).
John Stackhouse of Regent College has quite a bit
of similar advice:
http://stackblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/grad-
school-advice/
See also:
A 2012 Ranking of Graduate Programs in Theology
November 26, 2012
R.R. Reno
First Things – On the Square blog
http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2012/11/ranking-theology-programs
See also:
J. Matthew Barnes, Fuller Ph.D. student in New Testament
May 19, 2009
Considering a PhD in Theology?
http://inthecornerwithmatt.blogspot.com/2009/05/considering-phd-in-theology.html
Who should (and should not) pursue a PhD in theology or biblical studies
May 23, 2008 by David Baer
Reflections on personality, spirituality, and other non-academic criteria
http://canterbridge.org/2008/05/23/who-should-and-should-not-pursue-a-phd-in-theology-or-biblical-studies/
UK funding for Ph.D. studentships: http://www.jobs.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search.cgi?category=1800&keywords=&x=54&y=11&category=1805&salary_from=&salary_to=
Thanks so much Andy for this helpful blog. It’s dramatically improved my thinking about many things so far. Quick Question: I’ll be applying for programs this winter. My push this year (besides GRE, German classes, & paper presentations at SBL) is to publish one or two of my works in academic journals. In your opinion how much will this boost my odds of getting into somewhere like Duke or Luther? Thanks.
@Hans, I honestly don’t know but I wanted to comment so you could see I saw your question. My first impression is that the school where you did your Masters degree matters quite a great deal unfortunately so that may also be part of the equation but you are right to pursue these things to burnish your application. Of course, you are able to meet people from the programs where you are applying they may also cushion your weaknesses with their positive impression of you.
Andy,
I’m considering applying to the Th.D. program at Duke. I graduated with my M.Div. from Iliff in 2008. Since then, I’ve been pastoring a church full-time and earning my ordination in the UMC (Western North Carolina Conference).
My biggest question is: How do I go about acquiring 3 academic recommendation letters, if I’ve been out of school for five years? Even if my old professors remember me, will they really remember me well enough to “rave about me” after not seeing me for five years?
Just wondering if this is a common obstacle? Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Yes. I had the same thoughts when I was applying. I actually went through my old papers from seminary with the professors I wanted references from and photocopied the A papers with their comments on them and sent them to them with notes saying that I realize that they don’t know me very well and it is fine with me if they can’t in good conscience write me an excellent letter of recommendation. In that case, I can find other writers. But I know that this school I am applying to thinks very highly of them and that a while ago as you can see from the enclose papers, you wrote some quite complimentary things about my writing and thinking and since then I have been doing this and that (send them CV).
It is also good if you have made new academic contacts through conferences and articles you have written–they too may be able to write for you. Eventually this networking, attending conferences, writing, being asked to teach and speak, builds up your references. BUT you are totally socially-appropriate to intuit that this is a very odd phenomenon–that the folks that truly know your character and competence may be people who aren’t famous enough to be great references (like your family and friends!) I would add extra references from elders, other pastors, bishops, congregation members, mayors, community leaders, etc. if those are people who can speak the highest about you–asking them to accentuate your theological competence, writing ability, speaking ability, pastoral skills, personal warmth, teaching ability, passion, wisdom, etc.–whatever they can say that indicates your life screams: future seminary professor. Have them also indicate their title and place of employment and location–even if it is in secular profession–so that the reader gets some idea of who this person is and their credibility. If I am a reader, I will google them. I would take seriously a candidate (though of course I am not involved in any of this process) who supplemented their decent academic references with a host of other references from people who have known you intimately and recognize your academic ability. Hope that helps. Grace and peace, Andy
P.S. Just also a note that most Duke faculty except for Mary Fulkerson probably think Illif graduates are likely too liberal to be a good fit at Duke. They would think that Illif people are a better fit at Vanderbilt which they think of as more liberal. So you may not want to get that many academic references from Illif and instead play up anyone with Duke ties. The United Methodist politics are quite deep–i.e. Duke grads don’t get accepted or hired at other UM schools and Duke usually doesn’t hire or accept people from other UM schools (Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary, Wesley Theological Seminary, Candler School of Theology, and Boston University School of Theology being rare exceptions). I am not UM so don’t quite get all of the subtleties of this but this my impression. “Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill. But what would you? You have not told me all concerning yourself; and how then shall I choose better than you? But if you demand advice, I will for friendship’s sake give it.”
Gildor the Elf to Frodo in J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings; Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter III (Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1991), p. 97.
Dear Andy Rowell, I am Babu from India.Thank you so much for having given me an idea about DUKE> I have B.Th;( Bachelor of theology) 4 years B.D;( Bachelor of Divinity) 2 years M.Th(;Master of theology)2 years all obtained from Serampore University Calcutta, India.I have one more M.A; on Sociology.All I have done in English medium. I have 2 questions namely: Do I have to under go GRE/IELTS to join Phd programe at Duke? Apart from English, I know my mother tongue Tamil,Do I need to learn any modern languages?Please you will let me know.Thank you.
David Fitch @fitchest 16 Sep
The Perils of Doing a Ph.D.: Be Forewarned http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/?p=4046
Pastoralia @pastoralia 3h
What’s the value of a PhD? http://goo.gl/fb/dlPCg
Hey Andy!
Thanks for the informative post! I am curious about funding though. If accepted into the ThD program, is tuition only covered for four years or is it just the stipend that only lasts for four years. To clarify, If it takes five years to complete, is the student forced to pay tuition for the fifth year (or is there just a loss of the stipend for the fifth year)?
@Richard Purcell.
Tuition was covered for four years and I was given a stipend for four years.
They also paid the tuition the 5th year.
The sixth year and afterward, you pay tuition which is like $5,200 per year.
BUT I am not sure what the current policy is.
There is one thing that must be mentioned. Duke University’s Ph.D. program rarely accepts African-American students into their program. They provide a site that breaks down their acceptance rates by Race. This is useful information if you are African-American like myself.
Hi Andy,
The profile link is not working in some of your comments. Pls update.
Hey,
I was looking for the difference in both the Duke Th.D and. Ph.D. programs and found this blog. This has really helped to solve my confusion. Many of my students were asking me about this. Thanks for sharing this valuable information.